Racism has a profound impact on the health and well-being of our kids. This week, racism against the Black community is being laid bare for all families to see—from the pandemic's disproportionate impact to police brutality and other racist violence. For this week's show, child psychologist Allison Briscoe-Smith will share her advice for talking with your kids about big, important topics like racism, ways to promote resilience, and committing to action.
Racism has a profound impact on the health and well-being of our kids. This week, racism against the Black community is being laid bare for all families to see—from the pandemic's disproportionate impact to police brutality and other racist violence. For this week's show, child psychologist Allison Briscoe-Smith will share her advice for talking with your kids about big, important topics like racism, ways to promote resilience, and committing to action.
Dr. Allison Briscoe-Smith is a clinical psychologist and professor at the Wright Institute, where she's director of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Allison's recent article for Common Sense is How to Talk with Kids About Racism and Racial Violence. In it, she suggests talking to kids about racism in the context of all the other foundational conversations you're already having, about things like fairness, kindness, working hard, and who we are as people and communities.
After the show:
And we want to hear your tips and suggestions! How are these conversations playing out in your family? Send your stories to parenttrapped@commonsense.org, and we might invite you on the show.
Parent Trapped was brought to you by founding sponsor First Republic Bank. To learn more about their services, visit http://firstrepublic.com.
AMB: Allison, thank you for joining us and doing it so quickly.
AMB: Last week, I had to interrupt my own interview.
AMB: I apologize. I am – I am talking to you from Philadelphia right now, there are a lot of sirens and choppers outside.
ABS: That's – it's literally what's happening. There hasn't been a calm minute that I've had anywhere, where there hasn't been a chopper or a plane going by. And I think, you know, we can appreciate that that's – you know, that's different for some communities and it's everyday for others.
AMB: Right. That's a really good point.
[0:52] AMB: I was talking with Dr Allison Briscoe-Smith. There were choppers and sirens in the distance because, like a lot of cities, there were protests and unrest in Philadelphia, brought on by the killing of George Floyd, ongoing police violence, brutality, and racism.
AMB: Everything that's happening in the news is so grave. Unfortunately, some of it's not surprising. But it feels like too much, and I don't know how to process it. And, relevant to this episode, I'm not sure how to talk to my kids about it. But I have to. We all have to.
[1:30] AMB: All parents want to shield their kids from hurt, from harm, from things that feel like they'll be too much for them. But the ability to choose to talk to your kids about racism is an option many parents, specifically parents of color, don't have. The first time a racist yelled at my young kids was outside of our house, when we didn't walk across the crosswalk fast enough. And the driver of a speeding car yelled “go back to your country!” If I had a dime for every time that happened, I could buy a t-shirt that said “Shut up! I was born in Brooklyn, you Anti-Asian idiot.” But for my kids, it was scary. They didn't understand, so we had to talk.
[2:20] AMB: I hate to bring up that story. That encounter feels insignificant right now in the face of so many examples of racialized violence. With social unrest in our cities, and a global pandemic disproportionately affecting people of color, I'm thinking about African American families, where talking about racism is never a choice, but a necessity for survival.
AMB: Being silent about this is no longer an option for anyone. And my guest today Allison Briscoe-Smith sees a little bit of hope in that.
ABS: If there is a white family that has not been talking about race, and now is compelled to turn to their children and say, let's pay attention to what's going on, let's do something differently. If we have families doing that, imagine what we could be doing and how this could really work.
[3:09] AMB: From Common Sense Media, I'm Ann Marie Baldonado and this is Parent Trapped. Coming up, we turn the whole show over to my conversation with Allison. As a clinical psychologist, she specializes in children and trauma, and issues of race. We'll talk about how to talk to kids about race, racism, and the violent images we see in the news, as well as ways to promote resilience, and commit to action and hopefully, change.
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AMB: I shared with Allison that we originally wanted to talk to her about how to talk to your kids about the pandemic. You know, during the Tiger King stage of things. And she says that some of the same principles apply.
ABS: I'm just working on another kind of article now called How to Talk to Your Kids about “Insert Terrible Thing Here.”
AMB: Right, right.
[4:06] ABS: The added caveat to what you're speaking about is not only how to talk about “insert terrible thing,” but again and again. I think it's also about these waves, these towering waves of pain that we have coming. As parents, that really – challenge is to how do we address it.
AMB: The title of Allison's recent article for Common Sense is called “How to Talk with Kids About Racism and Racial Violence.” In her work, she helps parents, caregivers and teachers talk to kids about race, and she helps organizations recognize, and combat internal bias. Also, she's a mom of three.
ABS: You know, we're a mixed race family. Our children are black, white, Mexican. So that means that this is a conversation that is not new that we've been having for a long time.
AMB: Allison suggests talking to kids about racism in the context of all the other foundational conversations you're already having – about things like fairness, kindness, working hard, and who we are as people. She says it's important to provide a safe space for kids, really listen to them. Find out what they know and what they are worried about. Watch out for signs of concern and worry.
[5:22] ABS: And, you know, I want to think across the developmental kind of trajectory around young children. So that means watching how they play. I know that in the beginning of the coronavirus, I was thinking, oh, my two year old doesn't notice anything. She's impervious – until she lined up all her baby dolls in a clinic and started giving them shots. Like, oh, okay. So she is aware that something is kind of going on, right? With the older kids. Perhaps they've got more language to kind of tell us. But it's also about noticing their mood, how they're doing. The last piece I would say about that is our children are noticing how we are doing. And that's one of the other pieces around, you know, our children are keenly aware of our stress. Many of us are already stressed during the pandemic. Many of us as parents of color or as black folks in particular, in this particular moment, are extraordinarily stressed, and our kids will notice.
AMB: Now, you say, to talk about these bad things going on in the world, it's important to do it in small doses for kids. Like, talk about manageable bites. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
ABS: Yeah. There's a trick with this. I mean, so what I want to caution folks against is like – okay, children, we're gonna sit down at the table and I'm gonna start talking to you about slavery, and I'm gonna start there. And then three hours later, where are we? This is not necessarily like a lecture. I am hopeful that many families have been engaged in the conversations – the foundations of these conversations for a long time. So that's the kind of breaking it down. But then I think sometimes what happens is that parents become overwhelmed with not knowing how to explain it. Well, you know, in order to describe what's kind of going on, I probably do need to talk about slavery in a particular way, or people who were enslaved. I do need to explain it. We get kind of caught up in all of those kinds of pieces. And then sometimes that leads us to just avoiding. Well, I can't really explain all of that now. So it's not a big deal. Or she'll never understand, or she's too little is what we say.
[7:19] ABS: But I want to kind of encourage us to try it out. Try a conversation, start it out, even with our littles. Do you understand what's going on? Why do you think people treat each other that way? What would you think if I told you this? So we can kind of calibrate with our children. And here's the thing. If we tell our children too much, they will let us know. They'll let us know, because they'll walk away. They'll let us know, because they'll have a shift in their affect. You know, I think about it this way. Those of you that I've talked to your children about sex, can you remember a time when you've talked to them and you said something that actually felt like too much for them? They'll give you a read. There'll be a look on their face. Please mom –
AMB: [laughing] Covering their ears.
ABS: Exactly. So, you know, we have to look for those kinds of things within our kids. But I'd rather have us move – and all of us – move to some conversation than our silence. Our silence leads them to make sense of it on their own. And what that does for children of color is it means that they internalize. Oh, I must be bad. I must be wrong. I shouldn't like other folks. They will pick up on the racist messages that are out there for them, unless that is checked. What that means for white kids is – oh, those people must be different. They must deserve it. So I really cannot say that in a stronger way. I implore families to try it out, to talk about this, to do something so that we can affect change, so that our kids are equipped not only with language, but understanding and compassion to do things differently.
[8:52] AMB: Is there an age that psychologists or mental health professionals think is the best time to start to talk to kids about the news. I don't know if there's a hard and fast rule, but what are your thoughts on that?
ABS: I mean, I would think kind of twofold, one of which is – children's consumption of the news, meaning hearing it on the radio, reading it, or typically, how many children are getting it is by watching something on TV. I think that's actually different than messages about what's going on in the world that are mediated by your family. So understanding, here's what's going on in the world. Here's what I'd like to tell you about what's going on in the world. These things are really hard. You might see images about it. That's a totally different kind of conversation. And I think that's one that that little kids all the way up can handle. But it's mediated by a parent's being there to help them understand. I am and do share their concerns about what does it mean for a four year old to be sitting in the living room and to see an image of George Floyd being murdered? That is not the type of exposure that we want little kids or even older kids or frankly and honestly, the exposure of viral Black death to adults has been demonstrated to be deleterious to our health as well. So, yes, the psychological literature does indicate that when you spend time in front of a screen, seeing difficult images that are not mediated and explained, that that is hard for kids, and especially harder for little kids because their understanding is really different. When those images are shown in the context of a loving, supportive family and are reduced and are not kind of pervasive, that's a different thing.
AMB: Absolutely. I think particularly the images that you can find on social media or on Youtube in the last week are – you can't unsee some of that. You can't shake it. And I mean, that's like me as an adult. And so I strive to keep some of that visual stuff away from my kids.
[10:52] ABS: Yeah. And sometimes it happens. So that's the other kind of thing to kind of think about. You know, our children are over our shoulder as we're scrolling, you know. And so, but that's the idea – is not to just move right past it necessarily, but to mediate the exposure. What did you see? How do you understand that? It's not something that I wish you had seen. Let's talk about it – to kind of do that as opposed to kind of shutting it down or, you know, my son loves to listen to the radio. And he loves to listen to the news. And so – but half the time, I have to pause the story to have a conversation. How do you understand? What does that make you think? Where are we going? You know, so, again, I want to kind of leverage this notion about what we do with our children that can be really helpful. And we have to know that our kids are getting access to these images, right?
[11:39] AMB: One of the things you specialize in is dealing with children and trauma. Can you tell us what is meant by that psychological term – trauma?
ABS: Yeah, the definition is basically when children and families experience a threat to their livelihood, to their wellness. And that threat is overwhelming. And that threat is associated with death and bodily harm. And that experience manifests as fear, and manifests in the body and pretty characteristic ways – fight, flight or freeze. And all of that happens in such a way that is overwhelming to our systems that we typically have to cope, and can lead us to kind of bear that pain over time. And I'd have to say that as such, there are ways that actually, you know, if you are a child who is outside and witnessing someone being murdered, that's a trauma. If you are witnessing this again in your community, again and again and again. If there's – the fighting that's happening, that maybe you've kind of pulled into families due to stressors, that's a trauma. So I don't like to get too relativistic about it, but I do like to be able to kind of think about that – those that are most in proximity with being impacted by this wave of racialize violence, we can articulate this as a trauma.
[12:53] AMB: Um, I'm not sure how to say this, but I wanted to ask you about the weight of the worry. You know, the fear. The weight – you know, for African American families, knowing that the danger of racist violence is real. I feel like that weight must really take a toll on parents. You know, on the psyche, the body, you know, physically too, like on the body. Like, always living in that fear. And I don't know if it's like – if trauma is the right word. I mean, I just think of it as a weight.
ABS: It is a weight. It's a weight, and it's a weight that we can think of in different places. Right? When Black children are chronically exposed to higher rates of anxiety, and higher rates of fear, that very well may be impacting our bodies. So there's a biological way of kind of thinking about that. There's a spiritual way of thinking about that. What happens to our psyches? What happens to our spirit when we have millennia of oppression? We've just had a clinical case where a little kid hated the color of their skin because they were dark. That's not a surprise, given our society in terms of what's happening to children, what are they learning? And frankly, that kid wanted to be lighter so that they could be safer. And – that there is absolutely, positively something that we can do to alter that. That we should do. And that, in the context of parenting, is to be available to love our children, to explain this to our children, to protect our children and to have allies and upstanders and other folks that will do that for us. So I have to kind of caution the kind of conversation – and that's why it's kind of touchy to kind of talk about trauma. I worry about – the assumptions shouldn't be that every black kid is traumatized. And, that when we live in a system of racism and white supremacy, there are consequences for us as Black folks. There are consequences for us as people of color, that show up in our bodies, our psyche, our spirit, and of course, our mental health.
[15:10] AMB: I hear what you're saying. I just want people to recognize that it's there.
ABS: Yes.
AMB: I apologize if this sounds flippant, but like if you're a white American who's worried or feeling exhausted about living through a pandemic event, like of – a danger out there, it is definitely real. You don't know how close it is, but it's there. I'm not trying to make equivalences or anything, but I'm just wondering if people could sort of use that feeling and sort of extrapolate from it.
ABS: Sure. I mean, I think – I mean, what we're talking about is privilege. Right? Or how I understand that. Right? So if you are a parent listening and you don't have to talk to your kids about what's going on outside, that is a space of privilege. Right? Where we go wrong with privilege is that people have conflated that “I have privilege” means that I'm a bad person. And then I feel guilty if I'm a bad person. And then “No, no, no, I'm not a bad person”. And then we defend. That's not the point. Your privilege means that you have a privilege. An unearned kind of privilege. Like, I'm privileged to be in a house right now. I'm housed. Right? So that means that I can come downstairs and have a space to work. I'm employed. Those are places of my privilege.
[16:22] ABS: That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It means that the person who isn't working right now has to be more stressed. And I can appreciate that. And I have to think about – how do I leverage my privilege to affect change for the person who's unhoused? How do I leverage that privilege to affect change for that person who isn't working right now? And I think that's the language of what corona has been hyping up – is okay, well, then I'm going to donate food over there. Okay, so I'm going to pay for that restaurant to give food to health care workers. Okay, I can do – again to go back to the action. The idea is not for us to get lost in – people have to reckon with your privilege and what you're gonna do about it. And also have to think about – if you get stuck in this means that you're a bad person, then you're just stuck and you're not of use to anybody. You feel bad for yourself. You're not of use to anybody else. So, I mean, I do think that kind of piece is deeply listening to what other people are going through and not just in a way that shuts you down in guilt, but actually moves you to deeper appreciation, feeling, listening and might move you into action.
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AMB: Coming up, more about how to move into action. And Allison shares her stay at home parenting hack. Stay with us.
[18:15] AMB: Let's continue my conversation with Allison Briscoe-Smith. We're talking about how to discuss racism and racial violence with your kids. In addition to making sure that kids have a safe space to discuss difficult issues, and taking their lead about what they are able to digest, Allison says parents have to talk about getting through it. Kids – and adults for that matter – have to hear stories of resilience, and not just focus on what's difficult.
AMB: One of the other things you talk about is this concept of resilience. You know, when you're having these conversations, you also have to talk about stories of resilience. Can you talk about what you mean by that?
[18:55] ABS: If we give our children only fire and brimstone, or give any of us, for that matter, only the terrible, only how devastating this is, and not also speak to the fact that we have survived that, then we don't equip our children with the means of managing it. So I think that's the way I think about – is making a way out of no way. So let's present something that's terrible and horrible. But let's also remember that I wouldn't be here, but for if somebody hadn't overcome being enslaved. I wouldn't be here but if somebody hadn't overcome, you know, Jim Crow. I wouldn't be here but for. And I think it's incredibly important that in that self reflection that we do around how am I doing – to think about how have we done before? And where are the places that people have moved into survival and to advocacy and to thriving before, and to point out those stories? I also mentioned that in part because media doesn't necessarily provide those stories for all families equitably.
AMB: Right. Can you talk about that?
[19:58] ABS: We can see it in lots of books. I mean, for a long time in the first wave of multicultural books, the first wave of books were around Black people being enslaved. That's where you could see diversity. So those were the stories that you were seeing. It was only relatively recently that you get a story of black people just living. Or being, you know, a president or being a super spy – in one of the book series that my son is reading. So the idea is that we have to be able to have access to seeing our stories of resilience and seeing our stories of normalcy, too, right? Every story around a person of color doesn't have to be some sort of profound struggle. And, I think it's important for us to have access to our stories of how we're making it. Those are narratives, those are stories, those are bodily experiences that we need to invoke and inhabit in this time and also support our children with getting.
AMB: Another thing you recommend is that people commit to action – to do something.
[20:54] ABS: Yeah. So I mean, I think again, I want to kind of – I want to think broadly – commitment to action. I think one, commitment to action is for people to try to be well in this moment. I think we're all really – everybody's walking around with our animal brain right now because we're in the midst of a pandemic. So stress is high, there's all of that. And so that means that we're not our best selves. So on top of that, as we're dealing with yet another wave of racialized violence, what can I do to be well, so that I can manage this wave? What can I – be well, so that can be of support to my family and my community? So I think there's that part. And that is action. Jumping into action when you're busted up doesn't help anybody. So the idea is, how am I well enough to move into action? Then I want to split this in two different waves. If you are the recipient of this trauma – if this trauma is directed at you, then your action is staying alive in the midst of this. That is what you are called to do. If you are not directly impacted by this wave of racialized violence, if you are sitting in multiple places of your privilege, then that is a place that I'd like to call you into action and to call you into action by first doing your own work. What can be done within your own community? What conversations can be had there? What learning can you do? What listening and deep appreciation can you have of what's going on? What way of sitting with overwhelm and grief can you do so that you are available to be of service to others? I know that that's all really kind of complicated, but it can be small and concrete. Can you help in voter registration? Can you donate? Can you provide a meal? Can you say hello to a friend that you haven't talked to for a long time? Can you talk to that family member who thinks differently about what's going on?
[22:37] ABS: These can be small, concrete things, but if each one of us is engaged in some small anti-racist act, it would be tremendous what we would end up seeing.
AMB: Do you have any recommendations for people who are looking for a reliable places to get news? Like, where do you turn to for news for yourself and for your kids?
ABS: So, the research really demonstrates that the major news outlets are really capitalizing upon our fear. There's great work by Travis Dixon that really indicates that the news stations, for example, or that show the largest distortion in representation – So meaning greatly, grossly overstating how many Black folks are poor, grossly overstating how many Black folks are criminally involved and grossly underestimating the presence of Black fathers. But I, in particular as a Black person in the ways that I can consume news is that I work really hard to not see viral images of Black deaths. I know that's going to impact my health. And I really pick places that are, for me, Black centered voices, and also places that have an interest in showing positivity. Yes, there were protests that were taken over by violence. And here are the images that you didn't see, of what a peaceful protest looks like. Here are the images that you might see of people working collaboratively. Here's the image you might see of white people on their knees praying for a group of Black folks.
[24:00] ABS: So I try to seek out those places to complicate the view. And the same thing is true for my kids. I'm trying to teach them and use some of the lessons that I've learned from spaces like this, about what kind of digital citizenship can I have for my children? How do I teach them how to consume information? Which are basic questions? Where did this come from? Where's that source? What are they – why would they show me this? Right? They show me this because it garners my attention.
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AMB: Dr. Allison Bricoe-Smith is a clinical psychologist and professor at the Wright Institute, where she's director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. You can find her articles, other media resources about race and racism, as well as lists of anti-racist books for kids and adults at commonsensemedia[dot]org. Allison was also a panelist on a recent webinar about helping kids process racism and violence, as part of the series Conversations with Common Sense.
[25:02] AMB: Before Allison left, I had to ask her if she had any parenting hacks – any helpful tips for life at home with her three kids. She told us about a good one called QuaranTunes. It's a site started in the Bay Area, by high school musicians and artists during the pandemic. They use their skills to offer free online lessons for kids.
ABS: So my daughter's doing singing lessons, and she loves it. And she's basically connecting over Zoom with a 17 year old girl who's on her way to college who's helping her to sing Beyonce's “Halo.” It's a half hour. It helps, you know, the college student – she's doing something. It helps my daughter a whole lot. But they do – I actually saw – they do art. Singing. They do songwriting. They do all of these kinds of things. And it's actually something that I think, why didn't we do this before? Because it can make music lessons free for children who didn't have access to it.
AMB: You can sign your kids up to be the next Beyoncé or Beethoven at QuaranTunes[dot]site. And, don't forget to let us know what you think of the show. Do you have a QuarenTunes-type hack you want to talk about? Send us an email to parenttrapped[at]commonsense[dot]org.
[26:20] This episode was produced by me, Ann Marie Baldonado, with Dennis Funk. Our editor is Hillary Frank. We got production help from Natalie Price. Our engineer is Pete Karam, and our theme song was composed by Casey Holford. We get editorial support from Andrea Silenzi, Fred Graver, Kyra Reppen, Jill Murphy and Ellen Pack.
AMB: Common Sense Media is a national nonprofit that rates media based on children's developmental guidelines. To learn more, visit commonsensemedia[dot]org where you'll find age-based ratings and reviews that are written by experts and trusted by families everywhere. Thanks to our show's founding sponsor, First Republic Bank, committed to providing you uninterrupted service. To learn more, visit First Republic[dot]com today. And be sure you're subscribed to Parent Trapped on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening right now.