In our final episode of the series, we're looking at how you can take the messiness of the last few months and embrace it to have a more creative and resilient life. Plus, we do a little bit of therapy … movie therapy.
In our final episode of the series, we're looking at how you can take the messiness of the last few months and embrace it to have a more creative and resilient life. To do so, we're joined by Tim Harford from the podcast Cautionary Tales. He's also the author of Messy: How to Be Creative and Resilient in a Tidy-Minded World.
Plus, we do a little bit of therapy … movie therapy. On Kristen Meinzer's Movie Therapy podcast, listeners submit questions, and the hosts offer advice through movie and TV recommendations. In our episode, host Ann Marie Baldonado shares her own personal queries: Is there a movie to help her fall asleep? Is there a movie to help her cope with feelings of uncertainty about the future? What movie could help her two girls bond as sisters?
This is our last episode of the show for now. Stay subscribed to this feed to hear about future projects from Common Sense Media. To stay in touch with our host, you can find Ann Marie on Twitter (@annmarieb) or on Instagram (abaldonado).
After the show:
Parent Trapped was brought to you by founding sponsor First Republic Bank. To learn more about their services, visit http://firstrepublic.com.
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AMB: So I had my first coronavirus nightmare the other night. A few months late, right? Now, frequent listeners to this show know that I haven't exactly been sleeping well these quar months. But the other night was the first time I've actually woken up thinking I had the virus.
[0:35] AMB: I sat up in a hot sweat, my mind started spiraling, like where will I isolate myself in the house? Who have I come in contact with that I need to warn? How many days has it been since I walked too close to that stranger in the park? I finally woke up a bit, took a breath, and realized I was only dreaming. I know this nightmare is still a reality for so many people. I'm lucky. But still worried. Because all these months in, what has really changed?
[1:06] AMB: Maybe we instinctively wash our hands now, and we don't worry about door knobs as much as we did in March. But there are still so many unknowns.
AMB: Over the course of our show, we have tried to provide you with tools to get you through these endless days that seem to blend into one never ending day. We've tried to help you keep your kids safe online, we've given you tips on how to help your kids process the world through drawing, and we've taught you how to play What's on My Butt to pass the time. Perhaps most importantly, we gave you tools to help you not pass on your own anxiety to your kids. Good luck with that one, Ann Marie.
From Common Sense Media, I'm Ann Marie Baldonado and this, for one last time, is Parent Trapped.
[family screaming]
AMB: Today marks the last episode in our series. And since the pandemic is very definitely still going on, we want to leave you with some strategies for how to deal with an uncertain future. First, we'll talk to economist Tim Harford, a huge fan of embracing the mess in life. And what's messier than a pandemic? Plus, culture critic Kristen Meinzer gives us movie and TV recommendations to help us get through what might be many more months of being a lovingly trapped parent.
[music ends]
[2:35] AMB: We've been living with the pandemic for some time now, but it's not like the routine nature of it has made it feel any less crazy.
TH: Chaos is coming whether we like it or not. Right? As we've discovered many times during the past few months.
AMB: This is economist and writer Tim Harford. Tim has three kids, aged 16, 13 and 8. He writes a column for the Financial Times called the Undercover Economist, hosts shows for BBC radio, and has a podcast called Cautionary Tales, a show about the lessons that can be learned from funny fiascos.
TH: And I'm also the author of a book called Messy: The Power of Disorder to Transform Our Lives.
[3:17] AMB: In that book Messy, Tim argues that we should embrace the chaos of life. And when we do that, we become better problem-solvers. And the chaos of working from home during the pandemic happened to strike during our interview, in a way that used to seem disruptive, but is now just the norm.
TH: So there are a few different ways to approach this –
LENA: Mama?
AMB: Hold on a second. Lena, remember, I'm recording. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
TH: We need to embrace it. It's going to happen more often, right? This is what we're talking about, okay? It's always fun to be interrupted by one's own children. I mean, when I'm trying to do radio for the BBC, it's astonishing how much stress that creates, because that is a situation where I really am saying that actually – everyone has to be completely quiet. We can't – there can't be any noise. Everyone has to be completely quiet. And I've realized that even trying to get people to be quiet for ten minutes is incredibly oppressive. But when you're doing it, you know, several times a day, at a certain point, you know, you just have to loosen up and say, well, we're going to fix the recording rather than trying to fix you. It's not fair on you to insist that you constantly bend to fit my unreasonable professional requirements. And so it is a reminder to me of how insisting on standards that can't be maintained is just a recipe for misery.
[4:53] AMB: So what are you thinking about, you know, the way that we're living now? Are you saying then that perhaps what we're going through might have had an interesting effect or consequences?
TH: Well, I think it's absolutely clear that the pandemic is having some powerful, positive consequences alongside the absolute catastrophe. I don't want to minimize the enormity of what's happening, but there are advantages, there are upsides and we must look for them. So straight away, parents are acquiring a new connection with their children and a new appreciation of what the teachers at the children's school are doing. That is going to be an appreciation that lasts.
[5:43] TH: We are figuring out that there are other ways to collaborate with people who are a very long way away and that in the long run, we may find we don't need to burn so much gasoline. We don't need to fly so much. There are other ways to work together. I mean, I'm a bad son and I don't call my father often enough. Am partly because my father is very shy and doesn't really like to talk on the phone. You know, like many dads. But I've been calling much more often during the pandemic because I realize he needs me to look out for him. He needs that connection and I need that connection with him. So there are loads of examples. But we need to be willing to allow ourselves to be broken out of our regular routine and to explore the upsides, rather than just constantly scrambling to get back to what we had before the pandemic and before the lockdown.
AMB: Yeah. You say you're not sure why things like improvisation, disorganization, piles of paper, messiness, are frowned upon because you think these are good things.
[6:50] TH: Well, the world is a messy place, and if we refuse to accept that, if we are constantly trying to impose organizational schemes where they don't work, we're in an awful bind. I mean, I'm all in favor of getting organized when getting organized works. I'm all in favor of a tidy kitchen. No objection to being tidy or organized. But what I object to is when we try to over-organize, over-script, over define systems that are inherently free flowing, messy, ambiguous. Whether, like Martin Luther King, you are standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial with a carefully crafted speech in your hand and you realize that the speech isn't really landing and it isn't really speaking to the concerns of the crowd who've gathered there. And you put the speech to one side and you start riffing on this theme “I Have a Dream.” And I always think of Benjamin Franklin, the amazing Benjamin Franklin, who was a big self-improvement guy. He was one of the world's first self-improvement gurus. And in his autobiography, he reflects on how he was able to improve all of these aspects of his life and really cultivate all kinds of virtues, with the one exception – he never managed to get organized. He never managed to keep his desk clear. He never managed to keep his diary clear. He never managed to get his bookshelves clear. And I just think – this is Benjamin Franklin. This is one of the most remarkable people who ever lived. The most astonishing life story as a politician, an inventor and a philanthropist and a publisher. And at the end of his life, he's going, “oh, if only I could have gotten organized.” I might have really got something done. It really spoke to me about – you know, tidiness has its place, but it has this weird hold over us that we yearn for tidiness. We yearn for order even when it's completely impossible. And if we recognize that, we do a lot better.
[9:06] AMB: So maybe we give ourselves a little bit of a pass if we have messy bookshelves?
TH: I think we need to be kinder to ourselves most of the time. We particularly need to be kind to ourselves about being tidy. It's a hugely overrated virtue, and add a pandemic on top of that. Yeah, everybody needs to give themselves a break.
AMB: Tim Harford is an economist, author of Messy, and host of the podcast Cautionary Tales. I like that Tim tells us to give ourselves a break. It's actually something a lot of our guests have told us to do. Easier said than done. But, if Tim insists, I guess I can let myself off the hook for my family interrupting interviews.
AMB: When we come back, we help you fall asleep. Not during this show. But later! After! Who doesn't need help sleeping right now? Stay with us.
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KM: Welcome to our couch.
RG: Take a seat.
KM: It's time for therapy.
RG: Movie therapy!
[11:04] AMB: Don't worry. You're still listening to Parent Trapped, but we're playing you a clip from Movie Therapy, a podcast co-hosted by critics Rafer Guzman and Kristen Meinzer. It's a show where listeners submit questions and the hosts offer advice through movie and TV recommendations. Most questions these days are quarantine related.
KM: People write in a lot about what it's like to feel isolated or that their spouse is driving them nuts or they hate the sound of their upstairs neighbors or any of a million things that we're all feeling right now.
AMB: Kristen is here today to give me some personal movie therapy that I hope will be useful to you as well. But first, I want to give you a sense of the kind of advice she gives on her show.
[11:53] AMB: Now, one question that someone posed to you recently is – this listener was having trouble falling asleep. This is a problem that a lot of people are having still.
KM: Well, I've definitely had that problem. One thing, put away the phone and stop reading the Twitter. Don't bring your phone to bed like I do, and then watch some really boring movies. And when it comes to most boring movie of all time, I always think of Tree of Life, which is kind of an experimental Terrence Malick movie, which has a lot of close ups of leaves blowing in the wind and shadows on the pavement. The Tree of Life will put you to sleep. And something else I recommended in that episode was one of my surefire ways to fall asleep. I just turn on something like the Home Shopping Network because it kind of sounds like talk radio, only they're never talking about anything interesting. They're always talking about like culottes or a really tacky jewelry line or something else that you don't really care about. You don't actually want to look at it, just have it on in the background and fall asleep with that. So those were our recommendations.
[13:01] AMB: For getting to sleep, one thing I like to put on is HGTV, which are – like some of the shows are people trying to pick apartments. And I like to be able to see inside people's apartments. But also, there's something about that rhythm of that. And then, you know, looking – talking about if there's granite countertops that can sometimes help put me to sleep.
KM: I love HGTV. I can't fall asleep to it, though, because I get too invested. I actually love that stuff so much, I'll watch it all day.
AMB: Well, I will say that if it's a House Hunters International, where they're in Europe, I'm going to wait to see which apartment they choose. I definitely know who where they're going to live in Aberdeen. But yeah.
AMB: Now I have a few questions for you. So it's like I'm, you know, submitting my question to Movie Therapy. I think this is maybe a concern of a lot of people. I'm scared going into this summer. I feel like, you know, we don't know when the pandemic will end. It feels like things will never feel normal again. And, you know, dealing with uncertainty is one thing. But, like, it feels like it's going on and on. Is there something to sorta help me be at peace with this much uncertainty?
[14:18] KM: Yeah, I have two approaches that one can take here. There are some people who, in moments of uncertainty, really just want to watch shows or movies where there are answers, where things get tied up neatly with a bow, where they can feel this sense of catharsis, where it's like, oh, thank goodness, at least something always has an answer. And for folks who lean that way, I'd recommend watching shows like Grey's Anatomy or Law & Order. The beginning of the episode has a problem, by the end of that episode, it's solved – then you can wash your hands of it. Every episode of Law and Order, if you ever watch it, opens with some random couple you're never gonna see again who come home on a date like – oh, Jeff, I don't know if you should come upstairs. Oh, come on, Mary, let's go upstairs. Oh, no. What's that in your hallway? It's a dead body! Bom bom. You're never going to see Jeff and Mary again. But by the end of the episode, you're going to find out who that dead body is. They're going to solve it. So that's one recommendation. But if instead of going for the solution and going for the certainty, you want to really throw yourself into what it feels like to be uncertain to watch someone else who's uncertain with you, I recommend watching a movie like The Martian starring Matt Damon. It's about an astronaut who's trapped on Mars. His crew accidentally leaves him behind because they presume he's dead. He's all by himself. He's socially isolated to the extreme. He has no idea of how long he'll be trapped there. But he somehow manages to wake up each day and keep trying, even though things are uncertain. We do have anxieties right now that might be similar to his. We might feel alone right now, even if it's not as extreme as how he feels alone. And I think this kind of movie can speak to our anxieties. And without spoiling it, I'll say it maybe will even give you a little bit of hope, but I don't wanna spoil it.
[16:00] AMB: I like both of those approaches. Because there's something very comforting about structure and knowing that there's gonna be a beginning, middle and end to something. That you know what you're gonna get in an episode before going in and. I like The Martian. It also feeds this kind of like seeing something that you don't see looking out of your window of your house that you've been in for months.
KM: Yes!
AMB: Okay. I have another question.
KM: Okay.
AMB: Now this one I feel bad about. But maybe some listeners maybe can relate to some of this. I feel like I'm being a bad adult daughter. My mother got sick during the pandemic. It wasn't with the coronavirus, thankfully. But it was serious. And also thankfully, she is doing a lot better. She's recovering. But I am actually still afraid to visit her because you know, she still has preexisting conditions. She's still sick. I don't want to expose her to anything. I still feel like we should try to be as safe as possible. But I do feel guilty about it. I feel like I'm being a bad adult child to an elderly parent.
[17:118] AMB: Is there a movie that you can recommend to help me with this? That's kind of heavy, but I do think that people are going through weird – like really hard things with parents and and children and loved ones and being afraid of exposing people and then also having different comfort levels.
KM: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think what you're going through is so common right now. My sisters made it clear to me – we've been talking a lot and she said, don't come and visit me. And it's sad. I don't get to see my sister very often. If I'm lucky, it's once every other year. So it's really sad to be told – stay away. Don't come. So I take that seriously. But as for movies, I would recommend for this instance a movie called The Farewell. It's based on the real story of Lulu Wang. And it stars Aquafina. It's a movie about a young woman who travels to her ancestral home of China with her family to attend a cousin's wedding.
[18:14] KM: The thing is, the wedding is fake and it's being put on so the entire family can have a final happy time with grandma. Grandma is dying, but she doesn't know she's dying because the whole family has kept this a secret from her. And I know this sounds really sad, Ann Marie, but it's also quite funny at times. And it explores the idea that in order to make our elders happy, we sometimes have to be the ones to carry the weight of the sadness of the situation. Sometimes it's our duty as younger people to hold onto that sadness and to be responsible for it so that the older people don't have to hold that weight. And also, it's not just a grandma-granddaughter movie. It's also a mother daughter movie. It's also a father daughter movie. There are scenes of multigenerational conflict and conversation about the best way to take care of each other and of our health and of our emotions during times of trouble. So I know it sounds sad, but this is such a good movie. It was absolutely one of my favorite movies last year. So, again, that's called The Farewell.
[19:16] AMB: Okay, I have another question now. This one is a little I'm asking a little bit on behalf of my children. They've spent a lot of time together. And they get along okay, but they fight a lot. And, you know, I keep telling them they should try to be best friends. I don't know if I'm ever going to convince them of that. But is there a movie that you can recommend for them to watch, for us to watch about, you know, working out disagreements or coexisting in peace? And this might be a concern that a lot of people have, because most people are still home. And so you're with, you know, your child or your parents or your, you know, your partner, your family member all the time. So maybe, you know, people might be getting sick of that a little bit, huh?
[20:02] KM: Well, I think it's normal for kids to get on each other's nerves in the best of circumstances. My sister, in her own words, said – I hated you until I was 23. But now we're good friends. And I don't think that's an unusual experience. I think siblings, frequently, just drive each other nuts and can't stand each other – sometimes hate each other. But oh my gosh, my sister and I would have actually murdered each other if we were trapped in an apartment together during Covid. So, I feel really bad for your kids and all the kids out there. I feel so bad for them! But I think one thing that might be good to watch with the kids or have the kids watch together are movies where the kids don't necessarily have to be best friends, but they can work together. Maybe they're working together against the adults. Maybe they're working together against a system that's problematic. But there are a couple of movies in this realm that I think are terrific. One is called Deidra and Laney Rob a Train. And it's the story of two sisters who are low income, who are struggling and who do exactly what the title says. They find a way to rob a train so they can get money to survive, to pay the rent, to buy groceries. And it is a great heist movie and it's a great movie about two young girls who are working together, even though they don't always get along. So that's called Deidra & Laney Rob a Train. And then another classic, The Parent Trap! The Parent Trap is always good fun. The kids pretty much team up against the parents. And it's – there are a couple of versions of it. The more recent version that stars Lindsay Lohan when she was young is terrific. I really love that version. And then there is the original Hayley Mills version from Disney as well. They're both good, but I actually really like the one with Lindsay Lohan.
AMB: Yeah, I like that one, too, a lot. And that's actually, you know, not giving away too much, but that's kids who don't get along that well at the beginning. And then learn to work together.
KM: Exactly. So I don't think we need to send the message – you need to be best friends. But I think it's great to send the message you can work together.
AMB: I love the idea of the podcast that like – any kind of question can get you guys to recommend something that can help people process, you know, whatever it is that they're going through. Do you find that you turn to TV and movies for the same thing?
KM: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've definitely – I mean, when I've gone through breakups in the past, one of the breakup movies I always recommend to people is Chicago, which is the musical with – the best song in the whole thing is He Had It Coming. So, you know, sometimes it's great to watch a movie where you fantasize about killing the man who did you wrong. And it helps you get over somebody. Sometimes watching a movie where the family actually likes each other can feel good when you're feeling like you're not getting along with your family at Christmas time. I think that movies and TV shows can also just help us feel really seen, when sometimes we feel like we're alone, when we feel invisible, whether it's because of our race, or our gender or whatever circumstance we're in. sometimes, you know, if we feel all alone because maybe we're sick, for example, watching a movie where somebody else is sick and seeing how they deal with it – sometimes it can make us feel less alone. So for me at least, movies and TV shows have been a great comfort. And sometimes they're also just a great escape to get away from everything, too. And I really like that.
[music]
[23:24] AMB: Kristen Meinzer is the author of the books How to Be Fine and So you Want to Start a Podcast. She's co-host of the podcasts Movie Therapy and By The Book. A list of Kristen's recommendations, can be found in our show notes.
AMB: So that's a wrap on Parent Trapped — yes, named after one of Kristen's picks. My kids know the Lindsay Lohan version of the movie by heart. Speaking of my kids, who reacted pretty well to a show being produced out of their house, I asked them to help me say so long, farewell, to you.
AMB: What are you going to miss about having the show here?
LENA: I'm going to miss you waking up so happy, Mama.
AMB: So what do you think about going into the summer with a quarantine the way it is and school the way it is and no camp and no school? What are you guys thinking?
KID: Boring! [blows raspberry]
AMB: So there's one guest today who says that we should embrace the messiness because it makes us more creative and find new ways to do that.
KID: Alright, then I'm not making my bed anymore.
LENA: Yeah, same.
AMB: Is there a thought you want to leave listeners with, even though the show is ending but the pandemic is not?
KID: Try to have fun.
LENA: Try to walk on the sunny side of the street.
KID: Not literally though, because it's very hot and you might get sunburned.
LENA: Yeah, mentally.
AMB: Mentally. Okay. Well thanks guys.
LENA: Now I'm going to play my Ipad.
AMB: Okay.
[25:00] AMB: Surprisingly optimistic! Sunny side? See? Maybe I haven't passed on my anxiety. Although, has the little one been with me this whole time? Does she really think I have been waking up happy?
AMB: Now as this podcast comes to an end, I want to thank you for listening. Thanks for sharing your time, your questions – your screams. I think we'll all still need a lot of help, so be sure to visit CommonSenseMedia dot org to keep up to date on everything entertainment, tech, and learning for your family.
And you can find me on twitter at annmarieb or on instagram at abaldonado. I could have used some messiness there to get more creative with my handles.
[music]
AMB: This episode of Parent Trapped was produced by me, Ann Marie Baldonado, with Dennis Funk. Our editor is Hillary Frank. We got production help from Natalie Price.
AMB: Hey, everybody, remember, I'm recording. This is what happens when you record in your house.
Our engineer is Pete Karam, and our theme song was composed by Casey Holford. We get editorial support from Andrea Silenzi, Fred Graver, Kyra Reppen, Jill Murphy and Ellen Pack.
AMB: They're not going to be quiet.
[26:21] Common Sense Media is a national nonprofit that rates media based on children's developmental guidelines. To learn more visit commonsensemedia dot org where you'll find age-based ratings and reviews that are written by experts and trusted by families everywhere.
AMB: Sorry, there's a bit of – there's a truck going by, so – sorry about this.
GUEST: It's all good.
Thanks to our show's founding sponsor, First Republic Bank, supporting your financial goals for the long term. To learn more, visit First Republic dot com today. And be sure you've subscribed to Parent Trapped on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening right now.
AMB: There's also a helicopter over our heads.
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